Community Update - Dressing for Success
Added 2019-04-09 07:01:01 +0000 UTCGreetings everyone!
It's been a while since we've done a community update so I thought I'd have a little fun and kick off a discussion. Today's topic - Clothes!
So one thing that tends to get brought up a lot (Like, a lot a lot) is the wardrobe system. When are we getting more clothing? Are there plans to expand the functionality? Why haven't you added more choices? Why don't clothes do more things? Where's my latex catsuit?
Well, the reason for the slow expansion of the wardrobe system is actually quite simple...
...
...
It's your fault!
Clothing Implications
Well, not "your" fault, your fault, but specifically it's the main character's fault. See, with the impending artwork implementation, we have the means and desire to reflect all outfit changes on the MC. Doing so, however, comes with its own costs.
To give you an idea of what's involved, let's take a single shirt.
A shirt is, well, just a shirt. One image. The MC, however, can have a flat chest, small breasts, medium breasts, large breasts, or massive breasts. Each of those needs a variant. That's now 5 images for a shirt. Still not too bad, except, moving into the new art system, the MC will have 5 different physical body frames: Masculine Male, Average Male, Androgynous, Average Female, and Bimbo Female. Each body frame will need the top to fit differently, and each will have a different scale for the breast size, meaning we need 5 variants of a top for each of 5 different body frames, for a total of 25 different images for a single top!
That's 25 images per top and 25 per bra, plus the 25 nude variants. Not to mention the 5 variants each for pants, underwear, socks, and shoes.
What I'm saying is, due to the 2D hand drawn art style, a lot of work needs to go into just a single piece of clothing in order to accommodate the various player states. If this particular limitation wasn't a factor, the wardrobe would have the potential to expand rapidly!
So then I got to thinking...
Yes, the paper doll system is rad, and yes, it gives players even more agency in the MC. You get to change your clothes and see the results! It's great! But then, really, outside of the wardrobe screen and the mirror... how often do you see the MC?
How much does the visual representation of your outfit really matter?
Let's Think About This
So, after sitting down and really thinking about this, I came out with a couple of potential conclusions and/or solutions, and today I wanted to share them with you and turn it into a community discussion, and take a poll for good measure!
Option 1 - Change the approach to MC artwork
The only time the MC's body type and attribute sizes "really" matter is during the intimate moments in the game. Otherwise, the MC is more or less out of sight and the player can use their imagination to fill in the blanks. That in mind, we could fairly easily pair down the MC's visual representation to an average male and female avatar. This would mean only 2 different variations for every piece of clothing. Clothing would still need art assets, but the process would be significantly easier to manage. This is the best option, I think, to give players a visual representation of their character while keeping asset development manageable. The trade-off is that you wont get to see your huge knockers unless your clothes are off.
Option 2 - Just nix clothing visuals altogether
Sort of the opposite of Option 1. We'd keep a visual representation of the MC's body, but limit each body type to a single outfit. Much less work on the development side while allowing the player to better see physical changes in their character. Flipside is that it'll be jarring to see your character wearing the same generic outfit all the time, despite having them dressed in full BDSM gear...
Option 3 - Stay the course and live life in the slow lane
Of course, we could just keep things the same as they are now and clothing will just continue to take a long time to develop. To be honest, I don't know just how important this is to everyone, which is exactly why I'm opening it up to discussion.
Disclaimer and My Thoughts
First, a disclaimer. This discussion pertains entirely to CLOTHING, and not the MC's physical attributes during intimate scenes. While nude, the MC will always be represented as the player would expect them to be. We're just talking about the wardrobe right now.
As for my thoughts on the matter, to me, Option 1 seems like the best option moving forward. You get to see your sexy outfits at the cost of maybe using a little more imagination than you're used to.
But what do you all think? What's important to you? I've attached a single-choice poll just to gather some rough data, not to actually vote on a decision, but I'd like to see what you have to say in the comments as well.
While you're at it, do try to remember to keep the conversation at a relatively tame level do to the public nature of this post. Otherwise, have fun and give feedback!
Comments
do you have any plans for different colour of cloths and/or some Exhibitionism
2019-04-17 04:58:46 +0000 UTChey... where is my latex cat suit?!?
James
2019-04-13 11:38:47 +0000 UTCThis is a tough choice. I've been asking for a wardrobe increase for forever; having a varied wardrobe to express my character's personality is always incredibly important for me when playing these kinds of games. However, the first two options just won't fulfill my needs and seem more permanent. I'm more than willing to wait a few big updates until you can dump a slew of new wardrobe options. Staying the course is the current best choice, I think. That being said, one thing I really hope you pursue Westane is more special items like the cat collar and dildo.
Caleb Cresson
2019-04-10 13:42:27 +0000 UTCYea, i can agree with that, i am looking forward to these changes too. But wouldn't it be easier to just use a "Show Avatar naked" Option you can toggle or something like that?
Gurt
2019-04-10 09:28:02 +0000 UTCOption 3 seems to be the best option because it seems like less of a cop-out. All you're losing out on is time, and with how long development is presumed to take for a game like this, waiting for clothes that fit the descriptions visually doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.
anon4324
2019-04-10 06:27:41 +0000 UTCThat's the approach we're taking, but even still each of those sizes is their own image and we "most likely" won't be able to use the same scale for each body frame. That's something we'll be playing with, though.
Westane
2019-04-10 02:03:01 +0000 UTCIs it possible to use a different approach? Perhaps starting with a flat chest for all characters models and overlaying bigger bust sizes (or adding bulge overlays to pants, skirts, etc.)? That could take the option # 3 from 25 per article to 10 per article. Not sure if that can work at this juncture.
2019-04-10 02:00:27 +0000 UTCThis won't happen :)
Westane
2019-04-10 00:51:34 +0000 UTCI don't know about this, and I'm not saying that your character wouldn't be dressed, just that the clothing visual wouldn't change to match the actual clothes you're wearing.
Westane
2019-04-10 00:51:15 +0000 UTCSomething like this is what I'm mostly considering, at least to start out.
Westane
2019-04-10 00:50:31 +0000 UTCI'm actually a little surprised as well, but then this is what these polls are for! The arguments for it are interesting, though!
Westane
2019-04-10 00:50:03 +0000 UTCThis I agree with.
Westane
2019-04-10 00:49:27 +0000 UTCThis is pretty much what's going to happen with the next artwork phase as it is. We'll be generating a male/female MC with the new art style, but then immediately moving on to the remaining characters before returning to the MC to build out body types and clothing. What will be interesting will be to see if peoples' opinions change during that interim.
Westane
2019-04-10 00:49:04 +0000 UTCI think that as long as it has no bearing on when a particular gameplay update comes out, then option c is best, but gameplay and features must be the priority, (in other words, don't hold content because an image for it isn't done yet)
Braidborn
2019-04-10 00:13:36 +0000 UTCHaving played ~0.1 I can say it's 100% about graphics, nothing to do with "impact on the gameplay" as you call it, otherwise that would have been in ~0.1 where clothes had all been seperate already.<br><br>People may think graphical clothes makes them unique, but they don't. They have always been unique, there was always a "current equipped" impacting the variables and balance m/f<br><br>The poll is about graphics, and thus time dedicated to graphics (and only graphics).
Narf
2019-04-09 21:06:14 +0000 UTCI think more and different clothing is great IF it has impact on the gameplay. If it is only a visual thing for the player then it would be nice to have, but surely not the highest priority.
KRanseyer
2019-04-09 19:55:12 +0000 UTCAttention to detail does a polished game make :P Plus, if the art style of the game is going to change from photo's to drawn (as i swear you posted about in the Q&A post), It makes even more sense to pay attention to the drawing. Maybe you don't have to go SOOO much into detail, like what difference does normal and androgenous male make anyways? But more clothing options, detailed drawings and time given makes the game stand out a bit more and it's good for role playing. Maybe even find a way to bring these adjustments to the forefront ever so often in story. Maybe when a change occurs, the paper doll shows or when someone makes a comment on appearance.
2019-04-09 18:58:36 +0000 UTCI think #3 being leader means people prefer to avoid the xxx content.<br>I doubt it's because they want clothes, but because they don't want the nekkid (there's a huge difference after all)<br><br>I am different: I am the type that changes channel when there's a clothes advert, or turns it off entirely, and instead turns on pron, because I like the nekkid, the absence of clothes<br>(Naturally, #2 was my choice)
Narf
2019-04-09 18:57:25 +0000 UTCStart with option 1 and gradually add content according to option 3 at a comfortable pace. Maybe use voting to select wardrobe piece for "expanding".
iiw2012
2019-04-09 17:35:36 +0000 UTCI'm really baffled by the number of people going for option 3. I agree with Michael Josten in that reactions to clothing would be nice but I really don't get why people need to see the clothing on every MC body type.
2019-04-09 17:33:35 +0000 UTCI'm for option 3, and this is why: I think that having more clothes just for the sake of having more clothes doesn't really add anything to the game. What we have is plenty for the content the game has now. So if more clothing was to be added, I would want it to exist for a purpose that was reflected in gameplay. Add some BDSM themed clothing? Add some BDSM themed content with multiple characters, possibly related to serum paths. That content itself would take time to write and code, so there's no problem if it also takes time to create art assets for as well.
Scars Unseen
2019-04-09 15:17:11 +0000 UTCI have to admit seeing the player change dynamically is one of the draws of the game. It's also fun to see NPCs change. So I would rather get more clothes slowly and/or as needed then see the system reduced.
Terra Blade
2019-04-09 14:40:24 +0000 UTCI think option 1 or 2 could be used as a place holder while expanding the clothing options slowly
Benjamin contreras Rosete
2019-04-09 14:32:05 +0000 UTCWhere it is. I really like the paper dolls as they are implemented. I'd rather you focus on the game and let clothing be one of the final polishes you focus on. That is, keep the limited wardrobe for now and then expand it at the end. As for wearing the same thing... Your NPCs don't change their clothes - I'm not sure why the PC should be treated as special in the regard.
TheMGA
2019-04-09 12:14:17 +0000 UTCI wouldn't use the paper doll system if the male photographic avatar of the player character didn't look like an absolute douche nozzle. As it stands, either stay the course, or find a more neutral avatar the represent the main character.
HaikenEdge
2019-04-09 10:38:01 +0000 UTCClothes make the man/woman/non-binary person. I think it's worth throwing time/money/artists at.
Ryplinn
2019-04-09 10:22:30 +0000 UTCThis system seems to have no bearing on the rest of the game. Just cut it and focus on the parts the player actually interacts with.
James Austin
2019-04-09 09:45:31 +0000 UTCTo be honest, I don't use the paper doll system. I don't like the style of this kind of representation very much. ( in generell, no problems about artists work! ) More fashion options, possibly leading to different reactions and slightly different outcome of events is what I would prefer. Imagine John in the bathroom, how different he could react with a businesswoman, a goth/punk style or a slut with a see-through blouse and no bra on her knees in front of him.Diffenrent levels of aggressiveness and force, depending on the clothes. i.E. using the slut as if she is his property, fucking her throat, let her feel, she is his anyway, let her do the work, because she has to want it. On the other hand the businesswoman, fucking away his frustration about the bosses, forcing himself deep into her throat, slamming the back of her head against the wall with each thrust, rape his frustration away. Just two extreme examples of what I would love to see about fashion. Fashion makes people, noone ever said that this doesn't mean sluts and "victims" ;)
Michael Josten
2019-04-09 08:09:03 +0000 UTCTho for me i wouldnt be needed many breast sizes but i do love the upcomming femine looks since i get really bothered by the now very manly mc even when he gets to more femine states thus i rather have those changes not be taken away
Princess Narii
2019-04-09 07:25:01 +0000 UTC
