Ep 198 - Spontaneity vs. Bunkerization w/ Rev Left Radio (full episode)
Added 2022-11-23 11:00:06 +0000 UTC"Bunker Brett" of Rev Left Radio comes on the show for the first time in years to debate and discuss the contemporary moment for the left, electoralism, the war in Ukraine, China, an what we can learn from First Secretary of the Party of Labour of Albania Enver Hoxha.
Songs:
Days N Daze - Instra Mental
Days N Daze - I Wanna See It Burn
Comments
but they aren't tho
My fake name
2022-11-26 04:16:21 +0000 UTCSo out of curiosity, is this an argument for spontaneity or anti-organization? Would alternatives be something like: a vanguard party, accelerationism, autonomous small groups, anarchistic principles, no organization, or finding better ways to avoid co-optation or something? Thx
Brian Brain
2022-11-25 21:32:24 +0000 UTCBrett even blocked me ages ago on Twitter for suggesting that we shouldn’t align ourselves with Stalinists because they thought this was ‘divisive’ and ‘sectarian’
Matt Crossin
2022-11-25 20:22:15 +0000 UTCWhy? It’s also been more than one episode. They’ve had on apologists for China, deniers of the Rohingya genocide, etc. it’s like a ‘left wing’ Joe Rogan show… just uncritically accepting the framework presented by whatever crank (or occasionally insightful person) happens to be the guest
Matt Crossin
2022-11-25 20:21:18 +0000 UTCI know he had the one episode way back with the Proles of the Round Table(lol) where they misrepresented a bunch of history to basically argue Stalin was good. But it seems like a pretty big stretch to claim that Brett is an "apologist for Stalinism."
Mark Brian Wilson
2022-11-25 15:14:51 +0000 UTCIt's strange to talk about the necessity of organisation and the threat of co-optation and not approach the idea that *organisation is what co-optation feeds on*. Unless you're doing a bait and switch with the concept of organisation, the things that are desirable for any org - working towards a clear goal separate from the individual desires of the people within it, functioning through organisational roles rather than individuals, being stable as an entity even if individuals leave or get replaced - are the things that make it easy and desirable to co-opt. An organisation works as a solvent to make the otherwise-intractable potential labor of the people within it fluid, and fluid political labor will flow to the lowest point: canvassing for a center left political party.
Ashley Finch
2022-11-25 09:59:14 +0000 UTCNever quite gotten why so many people like this apologist for stalinism..
Matt Crossin
2022-11-25 06:23:01 +0000 UTCHow is it not false with the numbers I presented? have a good night then.
The Fine Art Revolution
2022-11-25 03:48:59 +0000 UTCLol Jesus christ whatever man..its not false. The rest of us know that, have a good evening
Taz
2022-11-25 03:38:09 +0000 UTCyou brought up the claim that china has a massive prison system... I'm telling you that is false. Where is the confusion?
The Fine Art Revolution
2022-11-25 02:52:05 +0000 UTCWhy do I have to care about what western media does or doesn't report on. We are talking about communism and how it could be built.
Taz
2022-11-25 02:20:55 +0000 UTCYou have to be real with yourself though, and realize this talking point is just state propaganda. Australia, Argentina, Brazil, Israel, Ukraine and a dozen other countries all have larger incarcerated populations relative to their population, but we don't hear about those countries in the West. You have to ask yourself why that is the case?
The Fine Art Revolution
2022-11-25 00:29:53 +0000 UTCright, but there is no massive prison system in china that warrants any disproportionate outcry as compared to any other country. Now if you want to make an argument about liberating all oppressed people everywhere, then sure. That can be done in good faith. But simply repeating incorrect western propo about china is not in good faith, at least not sub-consciously.
The Fine Art Revolution
2022-11-25 00:22:02 +0000 UTCWow! You mean the united states is a terrible despotic government? Being 1/5 the size of the American prison system is still a historically gigantic carceral state. And if we can't accept that we are just doing campism
Taz
2022-11-25 00:17:47 +0000 UTCa quick wikipedia search shows China has a prison population of 121/100,000 and the United States has 639/100,000 so our prison network is 5.28 times larger relative to population
The Fine Art Revolution
2022-11-24 22:11:42 +0000 UTCchina has more than a billion people. don't eat up western propo like that
The Fine Art Revolution
2022-11-24 22:01:55 +0000 UTCbut they are tho
The Fine Art Revolution
2022-11-24 21:55:56 +0000 UTCSean acted like a great moderator and Brett is very good at conversing with people who don't share his exact opinions, good ep. Hope to get more cross overs like this.
Mark Brian Wilson
2022-11-24 21:30:57 +0000 UTCAndy thank you for talking sense about China. Laughable to talk about China for 20 minutes and not mention the massive prison system
Taz
2022-11-24 08:55:58 +0000 UTCLove this content. Would be dope if you guys worked together more often with brett
JK
2022-11-24 02:15:57 +0000 UTC"How to unite the class fractions" I don't think there's any way around the necessity of committed socialists to get shitty blue collar jobs and learn to organize with them. Go to the workers! That's literally the only thing I think might work to actually plant the seed for class politics to grow out of
James Murray
2022-11-24 00:25:46 +0000 UTCGood episode! On "multi-polarity", I think it's important to point out that most of the world's governments actively want the US military (specifically the Navy) to continue securing supply lines and naval routes to keep globalized trade going. Also, I have a theory that part of Russia's goals in invading Ukraine was to draw China away from western Europe and Africa (major part of B&R initiative) and more toward Russia, which has worked.
DeliaCore
2022-11-23 18:10:24 +0000 UTCBunker Brett 😂 this ep was awesome. The og crossover with rev left is how I found the Antifada, u guys gotta do this more often!
Terra 💕🌎💕
2022-11-23 17:20:21 +0000 UTCbased
The Antifada
2022-11-23 15:17:53 +0000 UTCAndy always saves the day, "(China) They are not communist!" 😂
Turtle Bugg
2022-11-23 14:25:18 +0000 UTCHope it isn't another three years before y'all get together again.
Matt Pierce
2022-11-23 14:00:44 +0000 UTCThe teleology of the US is and always will be along the lines of Jeffersonian economics that produce reactionaries and lumpen proletariat. The only solution will be an economic crisis that kills the Jeffersonian model and balkanizes the country.
Magiteker
2022-11-23 13:39:51 +0000 UTCOn the question of spontaneity vs organization, i always found the whole infinite diatribe to be a false dichotomy, both options by themselves are useless in the long run, organization is obviously paramount for communists, but as we operaistas say: organization is spontaneity thinking about itself.
Poca Voglia
2022-11-23 12:23:50 +0000 UTCHell yeah lol
Matt Pierce
2022-11-23 11:16:42 +0000 UTC
