GGO2: Donation vs free votes
Added 2024-06-08 21:13:43 +0000 UTCIt was brought to my attention that the idea that people who donate significant amounts to make a girl grow can almost completely invalidate the votes of people who spend less, or nothing at all.
While I don't want to discourage people who wish to support me financially (thanks for that btw, every little bit helps,) the idea that votes for sharing and engaging won't count for much is discouraging those who can't donate, or can't afford to donate as much as others. And this sucks. I really would like everyone to feel like their vote matters and have a fun time with the event.
Lotta people been commenting on this in the replies of the post it was pointed out in and I wanted to make an official post to discuss things in a more official capacity. there have been some interesting ideas being thrown out there, but I can't say I'm a big fan of implementing any of them just yet.
Currently it is very easy for me to track the sources of peoples votes, and who's spending what where. Because of that I was thinking that to even things out it might be a good idea to see where the free votes are going and give a bonus to the most popular choices there. Like give every girl some kind of affinity bonus or bonus growth in the category with the most free votes. Or maybe something from each public site? II dunno I'm still kinda just spitballing here.
I'm also thinking of maybe lowering the votes to continue a bit for Patreon members. People who invest should get some kind of compensation for it, but at the same time it's a little too easy for members to heavily influence the vote.
Still got a week before I do something official like so I'd like to hear everyone thoughts on the matter. Is my idea dumb? Do you like it but think you have a suggestion to make it work better? I'd really like some feedback on this. My goal is to make the Grow Off as enjoyable as possible for everyone who decides to participate.
Comments
Sounds good, more growth is always a plus, and my goodness measuring in pentameters O.o I am ready for that! Now I am going to have trouble deciding, keep voting for my favorite gobbie and her booba or spread the growth to others since the vote to growth will be boosted a ton. And you know what, that's the kind of thing I like, no... the kind of thing I love: constant growth and competition ending in absurd sizes with one final victor in the end but everyone massive anyway. I am so glad you found a solution to go with and I am so looking forward to it and the extreme hyper sizes that will ensue. I am thrilled I can support your work which I like so much and for some amazing growth throughout! Let's go! The bigger the better!
Sonicshadow
2024-06-10 15:33:53 +0000 UTCIf you think the name is great, the game is even better (started on itch, now also on steam https://store.steampowered.com/app/2835570/Buckshot_Roulette/ ). And now I can't get the mental image out of my head where Joh and all the other contestants are sitting at a table with a shotgun loaded with a mixture of 2 types of shells, one that increases their affinity, and one that contains standard buckshot, all nervously sweating who to shoot.
Atomic_Concrete
2024-06-10 07:23:45 +0000 UTCAlso "Buckshot Roulette" is a goddamn amazing name.
themisterstupid@gmail.com
2024-06-10 06:12:35 +0000 UTCIf my math is correct then we'll likely have about 12 rounds. Which is around 6 months of this so if things keep going like this we're eventually have to start using petameters or something and I am here for it. So the idea of adding affinities based is both a rubber banding solution and to (hopefully) account for those who have abilities that keep getting stronger and stronger as the game continues. Joh, in particular is going to quickly get even more out of hand then she currently is. The bonus based on votes is for everybody so that should keep things even naturally. I think I'm gonna go with that. If it starts getting stupid then I'll cross that bridge when I arrive at it.
themisterstupid@gmail.com
2024-06-10 06:10:29 +0000 UTCThat Buckshot Roulette moment is a better description of what my example concern was meant to convey, thank you for explaining it better. It could be fine or not depending on number of rounds and then this affinity boost with any other skill affinity boost and such, basically a ton of variables that influence it that are hard to predict. So I agree you can implement this but also agree with Concrete that some contingency plans to change course and control it if necessary might need to be in place (but this would also have to be within reason for the contest I think). I also thought of something else (I hope this makes sense and it might be no good): Maybe make it like just a temporary bonus affinity the changes each round for the next round based on position (maybe something the Icon of the Feminine! bestows on those competing and seeking its power based on ranking or something idk) that is added onto whatever permanent affinities they have but again only temporarily . Then, after the conclusion of the round and calculation of growth with the bonus ended, that temporary bonus is taken away and then changed based on the new position. Example: Say Bel was last the current round then she gets a temp +4 bonus to her base affinities lets say all at 4 (after factoring in any special ability affinity changes or affinity changes you wanted to add yourself for whatever reason as you have the power after all) making it +8 total in affinities for calculations for the next round. Once the next round is done and those calculations with the +8 are done it is found she placed 2nd thus that +4 bonus disappears and only becomes a +1 bonus the following round making it 4 base+1 bonus so +5 that way it does not permanently stack to affinities or something like that. *Exception would be like if her special or anything again made her affinities go from 4 to 5 this round so it would be a base of +5 and then +1 bonus for +6 total instead.* That way only special ability changes, not the temp bonus changes, stay permanently added to the base affinity (if it even changes at all) and the temporary ones also do not compound on each other. That way on the last round it is still only based on the passive permanent affinity alone, and not the whole summation of all the bonuses added along the way ( I hope this makes any sense, tired and trying my best to explain). Though it might not work and be to complicated along with potentially alot of extra work and logistics on your end to keep track of, so just an idea I wanted to throw out there. And sorry, I know it might be like another math problem as I don't know how to describe it another way. :P
Sonicshadow
2024-06-10 05:42:05 +0000 UTCConcrete is fine (and preferable honestly, most usually default to Atomic, despite Concrete being a much better shortening/descriptor). I basically agree and don't have any issues with increasing affinities for contestants that didn't place first in a round. My only observation is this will drastically change the nature of the competition. I'm all for it since it means exponentially growing ladies, though depending on the multiplier, I imagine it will rapidly turn from helping smaller contestants catch up to, instead, causing them to dwarf all other contestants including first place. I'm 100% on board for boosting those affinities, and in a vacuum with infinite rounds, it's a great rubber banding mechanic to stop any runaway victories or contestants getting neglected, the only potential problem I foresee is the actual number of rounds and if it will be possible for the higher ranked contestants to also get the chance for comebacks, or if they'll get shafted because the number of rounds was unfavorable. Unironically this is turning into a Buckshot Roulette moment where turn order (or in this case, the total number of voting rounds) will completely determine the outcome of the competition. I say commit to it and see what happens, but don't be afraid to step in and course correct if for example Bel and Alba end up planetary sized while poor Joh is still only around the size of a mountain.
Atomic_Concrete
2024-06-10 04:57:28 +0000 UTCOh I can attest to the difficulty of this chat set up with shift/enter to do paragraphs, on mobile is even more annoying. I also in a same 50/50 do not mind Joh being just a monster behemoth of a gobbo compared to everyone else and also do not mind changing it to be more competitive and for more growth for all. As for the scaling idea (I think you mean the scaling bonus one mentioned where 2nd gets +1, 3rd +2, etc?), I think that would be pretty good idea which could create an interesting situation for the final round if for example Joh stays first but that second place has a super stacked summation of all these affinities buffs. Hmm, might also make that size of galaxy thing a reality too. *Though the only small hiccup I see is that might put Joh in the position of only being able to win through more growth from donations as the votes for her then might be a much lower affinity then the 2nd place and if she lost after so many donated so much at that point might be an issue but it really might not be at all either so it maybe of no concern * In addition, I don't know if also putting the idea to a vote on the other sites would be something to do as well to confirm most are okay with the idea? (might be to difficult and annoying and only if you were at all worried)... or just decide to do it and watch the extreme growth shenanigans ensue (fine by me honestly the more growth the better, the bigger the better as I like to say haha).
Sonicshadow
2024-06-10 03:23:25 +0000 UTCBTW: make sure you read the comment again. Dumb return key forced me to edit the rest of my thoughts into it.
themisterstupid@gmail.com
2024-06-10 03:00:08 +0000 UTCBigger than a galaxy love it haha, and at this rate it might be a possibility lol And the math part is very true it would be hard, very hard to keep track of O.o
Sonicshadow
2024-06-10 02:53:51 +0000 UTCFirst off, Concrete (can I call you concrete?) I appreciate the kind words along with the support. It's always felt really weird to me to think that I have fans of any sort, but it is really nice to know that there's people out there who like the silly little characters I think up. While I kinda like a lot of these ideas Jesus h Christ the amount of math needed to implement them would likely qualify my spread sheet for a Nobel prize. "Our first nominee is Dr Mister Stephen N. Stupid for his unified theory on how to make a goblin big but not too big too quickly, you know?" On the other hand though, I kinda like the idea of Joh being this absolute fucking behemoth. I'm really of 2 minds. I want it to remain a competition but I'd rather not discourage people from voting for their favorite, especially if they just want a goblin bigger then a galaxy. (Seriously, the next line up is probably gonna have to be split into 3 parts and that's kind of awesome.) (I should not have to hold shift in order to start a new paragraph. This isn't discord, goddamn it.) A few more ideas I had where we could maybe give the remaining girls a scaling bonus related to the current largest girls increase from last round. I've got a formula that scales up the growth for everything based on their height so we don't end up with a woman who's 1000 feet tall with a 36" waist. Perhaps we could multiply the next rounds votes for everyone based on the scale increase of the current biggest? Another is a scaling bonus to everyone who doesn't come in first. Like 2nd gets a +1 to all affinities, 3rd gets +2, 4th +3 and so on. The idea being that their affiliates will eventually get big enough to help the smaller ones catch up faster. The way I have it set up the affiliates would be multiplying the votes by thousands of times before long. Could end up like a bit of a meta game, like what people ended up doing to make Adeen's special ability kick in. Now that I think about it, the second option feels pretty good. Probably do that with the bonuses to the popular vote in order to make people think every vote matters, and that they can still vote for their favorite even if they're behind.
themisterstupid@gmail.com
2024-06-10 02:46:26 +0000 UTCGGO3: Everyone is a goblin. Including you, the person reading this.
themisterstupid@gmail.com
2024-06-10 02:38:24 +0000 UTCFor real! Maybe that's the solution, bring them all to Joh's height and just turn them all to gobbos! LOL
Sonicshadow
2024-06-10 01:58:29 +0000 UTCGGGO2: The Great Gobbo Grow Off 2, the only way to keep the contestants fair and balanced.
Atomic_Concrete
2024-06-10 01:55:55 +0000 UTCI agree with the small affinity bonus thing, I kind of focused on understanding the bonus growth part and realized I completely forgot to mention that a small affinity increase I thought was a good idea too for those not of KaiJoh level haha. Also I agree, I do not think patreon benefits should be docked as that is part of what we are paying for. I also subscribed to support MisterStupid and I like their work alot, getting some commissions and the growth vote stuff is more of a nice perk than the main reason but is nice to have too. Still not to big a fan of the match to current level right now at least. It seems a bit too much in my opinion and would work only if Joh did continue to stay popular and grow a ridiculous amount every round, though that seems likely at this moment, it is still not a certainty. For instance, now that Adeens affinity stuff has kicked in the extreme vote to growth you get is tempting, especially for free votes, you never know what might happen and then if Joh slowed down in growth any money put into her would be lessened. Just my thoughts too. :) Though on a complete side note, with how super popular gobbos seem with all us voters, I think a future growth contest with just all gobbos would be interesting to see haha.
Sonicshadow
2024-06-10 01:25:51 +0000 UTCI basically agree with this. Either some kind of extra boost in votes for the greatest amount of free votes to a specific category: boobs, butt, height, etc. for each contestant, or, what I actually would prefer and you suggested in the original post, increasing the affinity, maybe a +1 permanently in the category that received the most free votes per contestant. I'd prefer an affinity bonus over just extra cm since that not only compounds those votes by increasing the multiplier, but also could encourage donations both large and small now that the modifier is greater and therefore, will be better reflected with donation votes (this is actually the reason I gave KaiJoh's breasts some last minute support, since the modifier kept her at 0.5x votes without it being the second most voted for category and would half the impact of all votes, both free and donations). As far as the consolation prize/growth to match the current #1 contestant height, that was mostly suggested with the assumption Joh will continue to grow and grow and therefore, everyone had more incentive to vote for their favorite contestant regardless of popularity and peer pressure, even if they didn't win, the longer they would stay in, the greater the consolation prize would be. I do still think some kind of consolation prize would be nice and fit the spirit of a grow-off (unless the GGO2 is changed dramatically and the concept of eliminations are removed entirely so everyone can continue to vote for their favorite, even if they're no longer "competing" per say) , if matching 1:1 is too much of a boost, maybe just receive 25, 50, or 75% of the current tallest contestant's height added to their own and curves scaled accordingly. Finally, the only thing I would vehemently suggest against is reducing the cm/votes afforded to patrons. I understand wanting to keep things fair and no one likes one sided competitions, but this seems a bit counter productive and self defeating in the spirit of a growth competition, and mostly serves to normalize voting power to free vote values. Instead, maybe offer some kind of hard cap system where if a certain contestant (Joh is a good example here) exceeds a specific number of votes (let's use 20 for round 2, it would have to be a dynamic value that scales accordingly as the average votes per contestants increases over time) that puts them still a decent bit ahead of the rest of the competition, but not excessively, so any subsequent votes afforded Joh, she would instead receive a bonus counted toward increasing her affinity, (maybe +0.25 to a specific category per vote chosen by the patron, permanently) so Joh would still get some kind of benefit, but couldn't just sweep the competition by banking an extreme amount of votes. Ultimately, I donated and subscribed to Patreon to support you for all the great artwork you've drawn over the years as a way of saying thanks and giving back. With that said, I would also like to see this competition remain competitive and avoid any contestants obliterating the competition, without hindering the significance of donations (they should be encouraged after all, you deserve them). By no means is this intended as a de facto list of mandates, feel free to use/ignore as much as you want, I'm just offering my opinion on the matter.
Atomic_Concrete
2024-06-10 00:54:39 +0000 UTCHaha no worries.
themisterstupid@gmail.com
2024-06-09 02:38:20 +0000 UTCOH it really is I guess, sorry about that -_-
Sonicshadow
2024-06-09 00:33:28 +0000 UTCThanks for the answers! Then I definitely think that should be okay, but (and I cannot stress this enough) only if you WANT to do it and please do not feel pressured too either. At the end of the day I also think that this is all just for fun and growth fetish stuff to enjoy. If people want to pay to increase growth in their favorite stat based on their preference or fetish then they should be able to and get what they paid for. I know it sucks being a free member as well but this kind of thing I think unfortunately comes with having paid and free votes for growth drives and makes it hard to balance for fairness sometimes.
Sonicshadow
2024-06-09 00:30:31 +0000 UTCYeah I am definitely here for the growth so as long as the boobs and butts and height be growing and getting bigger I'm good.
Sonicshadow
2024-06-09 00:22:54 +0000 UTCyeah my spreadsheet has a spot for each individual vote and the site it was placed on. Then it adds everything up for me and gives you those final tallies. (I'm actually both proud of making it and amazed that it works at all) Granted, one issue I struggle with is making sure it stays accurate as I update it through out the week
themisterstupid@gmail.com
2024-06-09 00:01:07 +0000 UTCthis sounds like a math word problem ANYHOW yes we'd likely do what gets the most free votes without taking the donation based ones into account. Regardless of what people have donated for I want to make sure that the free votes get what they voted for even if it matches up with what people are donating for as well
themisterstupid@gmail.com
2024-06-08 23:58:57 +0000 UTCAnd as a hypothetical example: lets say Alba got 20 total votes. 10 for boobs, 6 for butt, 4 for height. The boobs had 8 free votes, 2 donation. The butt had 4 free votes and 2 donation, and the height had 1 free vote and 3 donation (this is assuming each voter goes all in on one stat). However the boobs only get 160cm in growth, the butt 264 cm with free and donation, and the height 416 cm with free and donation. On our end it looks like height and butt are highest in vote amount based on just the growth in the chart, but on your end based on amount of stat votes (and free votes) boobs and butt are highest. In this scenario, you would give a bit more of a bonus to boobs and butt as they have more free votes on top of any existing bonuses for the round regardless of the amount of growth correct?
Sonicshadow
2024-06-08 23:48:02 +0000 UTCI know from our end in the charts we see the total votes each contestant gets and the total growth in cm they get. However, we do not see the breakup and amount of actually votes that each individual stat gets (which could be the same or more than the total votes if those votes are split between multiple stats) which is what you can obliviously see in the background and those are the votes you are referring to?
Sonicshadow
2024-06-08 23:44:33 +0000 UTCTbh I unfortunately can't donate at the moment but it doesn't bother me that others manage to cast a lot of votes through their donations... Not one bit. On the contrary I can only be happy if the man gets some well deserved money, plus I have of course my favourite girls but tbh I just want to see big things ahah doesn't matter if my favourite loses 😁
Atarasevich
2024-06-08 23:43:34 +0000 UTCHey Mister, first off I want to state I love your work and supporting you. To me I ultimately think it is fine as is but I do also understand what was brought up by donation vs free votes and the concern there. I would definitely be happy to help you and discuss options to try and address it if that is something you really want to do. :) I definitely understand our other ideas were more extreme and I do think I like your idea as it sounds like and seems to be a smaller, simpler change to try out first that would help free votes out without too extreme of a change overall that also would not cut into the paid donation votes. I think it would have to be a smaller bonus in that case and that just basing it on total free votes overall for each stat versus making the bonus different based on the total free votes from each stat on each site would be easier (but not sure there). Though just to make sure I understand it I did want to clarify some things, so bare with me.
Sonicshadow
2024-06-08 23:42:39 +0000 UTC
