Heretics of Dune Club Session IV: Questions and Observations

Observation! I’m not sure if Patrin’s heritage was discussed in depth anywhere, but being a native of Gammu, I like to imagine he’s some portion Harkonnen. Teg and Patrin being so close and such great allies feels like the Atreides and the Harkonnens finally choosing to work together for a common beneficial goal (Paul is sort of a forced melding since he’s the mixture of Leto and Jessica). It took 5000 years, but I’m glad to see them cooperating in some form haha Also, after that Odrade chapter with the Siyanoq dance, I’m seeing unspoken languages everywhere throughout the story!

Niko Ketsilis

A little bit lighter on observations today, I took a bit of a brain-break and started prepping this only yesterday forward. p.395 "I learned the way of that from Paul Muad-Dib himself." Another situation like we had in God Emperor where we say well now wait a minute if he doesn't have Hayt's memories did Paul really get that long to show Duncan this before the Harkonnens attacked in the first book. In God Emperor there is at least one other time where we wonder if the Tleilaxu just told him -about- some later Duncan stuff before delivering him or if it's a legit Duncan-Prime memory. p.402 I'm loving Teg pointing an empty lasgun at her. p.416 This is interesting, with the dead people they uncover because it shows that the best secret was kept out in the open, the earlier raiders found tje smaller stash, virtually on top of the larger spice hoard, and fought over it, but just were destined not to find all the secret ways farther into it. p.424 Memories are not enough unless they call you to noble purpose. Not just history but personal memory in life, regrets. My favorite statement of this whole range of pages.

Heya Danika - Wow, there's a lot going on in this book! So many plots and machinations. Taraza seems to be navigating the mess relatively well and has her Bene Gesserit talents to help. I kind of wish there was slightly more background or establishing chapters on Tar to get to know her slightly more... Sheena, Teg, Duncan and Odrade have spicy and fun personalities that shine but Tar feels more complex and harder to connect with. I kind of wish more was written to establish her... Can you share your thoughts on Tar as a main character? Pros/ Cons? PS sadly can't make the live stream due to work today but will watch as soon as I'm free! Bless the maker!

Cazzamatazz

So, there is one mention of "fear in the scrotum", I don't know why they mentioned that, but having experienced it once, it is a thing. Not clear yet if it will be time for F in chat for Miles Teg, never trust an end of chapter death without confirmation after. ALSO, WHY DID LETO II HAVE TO SHOUT HIS MESSAGES IN ALL CAPS? WAS HE THAT INTO ANCIENT ROME THAT HE TOOK THE INVENTION OF LOWERCASE LETTERS AS BARBARIC (CUZ IT IS, or at least it is a medieval invention, and anything in between Ancient Rome and the so-called Renaissance has for so long been taken as bad)? I do like that Leto II reminds the sisters of their mortality. Why are they such a secret society? They want to control stuff from behind the scene but there appears to be no real reason for it. This whole universe seems to not understand the impermanence of things and to just enjoy living in the now in a post scarcity world. I know they went through some famine BS in the scattering (who cares?) but, like, why not just enjoy life on Caladan or something? They seem so hell-bent on survival eons from now that they have forgotten to live in the now. And all they do is otherwise fondly remember some distant childhood. Aslo, Frank Herbert is not into body positivity by having the one not modern day slim kind of attractive be defective and die for/of it.

PJ B

Observation -We had wondered before if there is still a great convention against atomics in the post God Emperor universe. Teg is this section clarifies that there is still such a convention, but Duncan correctly points out that the existance of no ships tends to limit its significance. The convention's teeth comes from the fear that all other parties will immediately turn against anyone who uses atomics in an attack on humans, which is hard to do if no one can identify the attackers. The BG are facing some hard truths in this book. Emperor Leto II from centuries beyond his dissolution really chastizes them. Paul Mua'dib and Leto II both in the past accused the Spacing Guild of squandering their potential by always taking the cautious path due to being utlimately dedicated only to their own survival, and now the Spacing guild has gone from being the most powerful political entity in Paul's time to being merely useful background noise in the time of Heretics. Leto II clearly foresaw the BG making the same error. Odrade is forced to admit that BG practices like the Missionaria Protectiva actively destroy human independence in the name of BG control. Leto II doesn't tell the BG that he died for their sins. He basically says "I died picking up your slack - what I had to do on my own you all could have done on your own". The meaning of "Heretics" in this novel increasingly seems to be "those who do not let themselves be decieved by the party line". When Odrade is finishing up her manipulations and decptions of the Rakian priesthood, she speculates that only the heretics within the hierarchy will be outside the control of the BG. Question - will we ever get to see you practicing any real-time Honored Matre style kicking in that great orange leotard during a stream?