Miniarc-Meet the Parents-09
Added 2024-08-13 03:10:16 +0000 UTC“My lady. The acolytes wish to search the carriage.”
I raise my head from between Talia’s chest and still my hand. Beneath me, the normally expressionless flower is flushed, breathing labored as she drags in harsh breaths, her hands pressed against the wall opposite of the door. I grin at the sight of the quivering woman. Something about shrugging off my prime form is relaxing in a way I can’t describe but having a willing, desperate woman under me never gets old. Or any less exciting.
“Stay,” I demand, fighting to keep the smile out of my voice. With her eyes squeezed shut, she can’t tell and take me at her tone, shifting about to make herself more comfortable. My custom carriage is meant to be accommodating but there’s only so much that can be done for a box on wheels. I take a moment to straighten my appearance before opening the door, putting myself in the opening.
Standing outside is Earl, hair combed and uniform impeccable. Compared to the wide-eyed, stained robed wearing acolytes with their unkempt hair and the bags under their eyes, he’s a beacon of order and hygiene. The Hall must be being ran ragged if this is the image they’re showing. It’s a bit embarrassing. I don’t blame them for the fear I can literally smell coming off them in waves. I do think less of them for showing it after going out of their way to stop me. I don’t believe they didn’t recognize the crest on the side of this carriage. If you’re just going to sit there like rabbits before a hunting hound, why bother me?
One of the acolytes clears his throat noisily and tries to project a strong figure, straightening his shoulders and puffing out his chest. It’s like watching a puppy growl. Nothing in the least bit threatening about it, no matter what the little beastie is imagining. “Please exit the vehicle,” he says and I inwardly applaud him for not stuttering over his words.
“No.”
My answer clearly confuses him. Has no one refused him to his face before? “If you don’t consent to a search, then we cannot allow you to—"
“Stop.” His teeth click in his haste to close his mouth. “You’re not searching my carriage. Ah.” I hold up a hand to forestall whatever nonsense he’s about to say. “This has nothing to do with you or the Hall. I’m just very short on trust now. I assume you have some way to contact someone up top?” The acolyte nods with a stern frown. “What you need to do is call your boss. Ask them if you should make an issue with me or let me get on with my business. Earl, get us back underway as soon as he gets the confirmation.”
My steward bows.
“Wait—"
“Make the call. You’ll see I’m doing you a favor.” I close the door on his sputters.
Amusing as it is to leave him at a loss for words, I mean what I say. My trust is worn thin. Too thin to tolerate people I don’t know and are likely hostile poke around my carriage, inside or out. On the surface, the Hall isn’t allied with the guilds but I’m not naive enough to think that the acolytes don’t have a thing against me. The school is intimately connected to the city. The acolytes come down for work and fun. I don’t doubt that plenty of them lost friends and family in this conflict.
I don’t know much about loss, but I do know that grief isn’t an emotion that cares about logic. I doubt anyone with a grudge against me is going to sit down and examine all the angles or care about how I was driven to do what I did. All they’ll care about is the consequences, which I don’t blame them for. It’s my fault I’m surrounded by enemies and uncertainties. It’d be stupid to pretend I’m not.
As always, Talia follows instructions perfectly and hasn’t moved a muscle. It’s a beautiful sight…but there’s no more time to enjoy it. I trail a finger through the valley of her chest, sighing in regret as I retract it. “Time to tidy yourself up.”
Graceful as a waterbird, she sits up and begins to fix her dress with deft motions. Her red face gives the impression of a blushing maiden, but her blank expression distorts the image, making it strange and a bit incomprehensible. A twist that is uniquely her.
“Ready to make a good impression?” I ask after she finishes tying up her hair. Only someone with a keen gaze will notice that it’s the second time she’s getting dressed.
“I’m certainly in a good mood.”
I’m still laughing as the ground shifts beneath us, the earth rising to take us to the Hall.
-
“Lou. You look wonderful for a burgeoning tyrant.”
As expected, the overzealous acolytes at the entry point to the Hall were instructed to let me pass. Unexpectedly but not surprisingly, someone is there to meet us. The ever-lovely alchemist, Cynthia…except not looking as lovely.
Oh, she hasn’t neglected her looks but signs of exhaustions are peeking through; there are no shadows under her eyes but the slight puffiness of the skin gives them away, her eyes are bloodshot in the corners, and her voluminous hair doesn’t have its usual sheen. The biggest giveaway is her smile. It’s usually so very carefree and confident. Now, there’s nothing but strain in the arch of her lips.
“Cynthia,” I greet as I step off the carriage. “Are we meeting as friends?”
“I hope so. Your enemies don’t live good lives. Or long ones. Talia, is that you? Have I mentioned how much I love this new style of yours? You wouldn’t be interested in modeling a few products of mine, hm? I have a few colors that would make that complexion of yours pop.”
“If it pleases my gardeners.”
The strained smile twitches. “You need permission to go to a party now?”
“Ever since a bunch of bastards kidnapped and threatened to kill her, we’re a bit leery of public gatherings, yeah,” I say with narrowed eyes. “But that’s something we can discuss when anyone has the stomach for a party.” Which I don’t imagine will be anytime soon.
“Darling, there’s always an appetite for a little amusement. No more so during bleak times. Unfortunately, it’s hard to have a good time without good food or good company. Two things that are in short supply.”
“That, we agree on. So? Why are you here?”
“Well, you tell me. I’m here to make sure your impromptu visit goes well.” The smile finally becomes too heavy to hold and collapses. “Because we really, really can’t afford another problem at the moment.”
Guess the heroes are having a hard time keeping everything together. I can practically hear Geneva whispering into my ear, telling me this is the perfect moment to extend a hand and steer the future. I’d be tempted if we had any intention of staying. Now, attaching myself to this mess in any way is just inviting trouble. “You’ve got nothing to worry about from me. I know Dunwayne wants to talk and we can arrange that but we’re not staying. Just picking up Talia’s father.”
“Guardian.”
“Guardian-father. We’re having a dinner thing tonight, all the family. Trust me, I don’t want any problems today either.”
She blinks, the reaction of someone with stellar control over their expression being overcome by surprise. Then she smiles and this time, it’s a ghost of her usual infectious expression. “First time meeting the family?”
A hand unconsciously combs through my hair. “That obvious?”
She laughs. “I can recognize a nervous paramour from a street away.” She shakes her head. “I admit, I was worried when I got word of your sudden appearance. Ah~ What a relief. A few wondered what kind of woman would unleash such destruction. I’m glad to see it was the Lou I know having a bad day, not a different Lou altogether.”
“…maybe a little different. Seriously, go do something important. Or take a nap. It won’t be long before my business here is done and I’ll be nothing but a bad memory.”
Cynthia’s eyes narrow. “You’re not just talking about this visit. You plan to leave?”
“We can discuss that more at an arranged meeting. For now…”
“You need to be going. I won’t keep you. Good luck.”
“Same to you.” She looks like she needs it far more than me.
Comments
"New information was presented and plans had to change. " And you only take into account the intels that goes with your image of "Lou didn't do anything wrong". There was no new intel that would justify her course of non action. When she decided to destroy the city, it was to finish the hunters, their treasures and end the March. None of those objectives were accomplished and she's not bothered at all about that. And shat on a mother that just lost her child cause of her. First, "priorites" are a point in that context : I say that Lou is lazy, incompetent and half assed. You say that Lou first wanted to take holidays to "have a breath" from the campaign. Since she was already in open conflict with the guilds at that point and came into THEIR turf(Quest is THEIR city, it was said before the March and repeated constantly during the March), yeah, the fact that she don't prioritize that conflict says EVERYTHING about her. Lou's priorities are supposedly her clan ? So how come that she didn't even thought of a tangible way out of her issues with the kingdom yet after razing one of their city and getting half of her household kidnapped ? She just got extremely lucky to not get any MAJOR loss (she wasn't attached to Fen or Junior) and still dare her luck to bet that the kingdom couldn't try to nuke her with her family alltogether (master mages capable of nuking a city, I wonder how Lou would protect Alana and co when most of the time she's either balldrained or incapable of thought anyway, and Geneva is still far away cause Lou can't do shit herself 9 arcs in the story) The March was supposedly for Alana. "Famillies rises and fall together" and Lou dragged the James into a kingdom conflict RIGHT after their fort got nuked. Lou still don't know what kind of mages are coming her way, what are expected from some of the named mages (since she wasn't interested in anything society related and can barely name noble houses) and still don't try to covert that gap of knowledge. I liked Lou before all of this. That nonsense where every character got stars in their eyes looking at her when she showed at every occasion that she's no better than any of the arrogant noble sons that she despised before. Except instead of using the "My dad will hear about this", she use the "I got insanely lucky one time and now I'm your problem and fuck you" approach. I rarely cheer for that kind of character. Fen and Junior were relevant to the conversation tho : It shows how incompetent Lou is. She's overpowered compared to any other organization in the Kingdom, with a full clan of Succubi at her heels for instance, each with management, scheming and strategic skills that totally outcast every human that ever lived in the Kingdom except the saints. Yet, she lost 2 of her pawns to a band of beast slayers that were portrayed as the most incompetent group ever seen before the MacGuffinDeusEx Authority. How can you loose 2 Legendary Pokemon level 100 against a ragtagteam of insects level 4 ? Well, you gotta be VERY bad at dealing with stuff. And Lou want to deal with everystuff since she always took all autonomy from anyone except her (Kierra herself can't do as she pleases) "Finally, negociations.." 2 arcs. For 2 arcs they talked about bringing negociations to the table. It's not me that shit that negociation story out of nowhere. Back in Victory Lou was begging to have the chance to negociate so she could avoid to have the same breakdown that she had about "killing 20 powerless hunters that could have been me" As you say, negociation need contact, bringing something, acquiering knowledge to make a proper evaluation of the situation. Lou came back to Quest with Geneva and Yulia. Geneva ALONE would have been enough to get what she wanted. But Lou wanted to do it herself cause Alana asked her. Yulia proposed to handle it in her stead, Lou said "no, wait for me" and NEVER acted. You see how YOU don't take all the context into account to make it look like Lou did ANYTHING right ? She have 2 mind reading eldritch strategic general genius in her sleeves and a legion of those in the capital. At any point she could have done something to not just "have to wait to be attacked". Hell, just a simple word to Geneva and the permission to bring a few succubus to Quest way back when she was in Victory and everything would have been handled without any bloodshed. The more you think about it, the more you see how pathetic Lou is. And she got the gall to shat on a mother who just lost her child cause of her. More empathy to the 20 morons that tried to kill her arbitrary than for the innocent she dragged into her conflict cause she was lazy as fuck. Lou isn't a good character, and I would like SOMEONE in the story to say it to her cause she's still sure that she did something right. Alana, the one who SHOULD have been a little more harsh on Lou about it cause directly conflicting with her ideology exlpained in the college arc, is still thinking that Lou broke heaven and earth during the March for a peaceful event. Come on. "The victory thing" -> She wanted to prevent a full blown war, so she razed half of the city in the name of the James (since the March is in the name of Alana JAMES duh) Yeah, nice move. I'm sure the civilians would have tried to fight the Victory Knight, and the Victory Knight would have unleashed a plague upon them, and bombed half of the city willynilly... OH WAIT ? Civies are TERRIFIED of the Victory Knights. One word of them coming and one Look would have been enought to evacuate the city on that point. And Riots with the hunters trying to use them as shield would STILL have done less destruction and live losses. So a ALL TIME FAIL for Lou. No arguments to hold here.
TheOneAboveAll
2024-08-16 13:26:43 +0000 UTCI gotta head off in a min so I'll try to keep this really short. Might come back and elaborate a bit further when I get back home. Yes your interpretations are off because you've kind of ignored the context surrounding the scenes, the motivations of Lou and those around her, and not taking into account the fact that she wasn't privy to certain information at that time. Just because she says one thing doesn't mean she absolutely has to follow through on it or she's a bad character. Just like how she didn't actually establish an outpost past victory's walls. New information was presented and plans had to change. Now taking a break. You say priorities like that wins you a point when really it's just one against you. Priorities. Lou's priorities have always been to her clan and to herself second. You seem to have forgotten that she was kicked out of her home and had to collect all of her things, find a new place to stay and continue to try and set up negotiations. If we go with your interpretation of events, should she have completely abandoned everything she owned the day she was kicked out and do what exactly? March into a guild headquarters and demand they negotiate with her? When she didn't know their strength nor her ability to contend with several master class casters? I mean she already sent out the invitation to negotiate at the hotel before that, so if you're still upset it couldn't have been that. She couldn't learn about the secret treasure the guilds had unless she sent one of the succubi out to investigate knowing exactly that there was something to be found in the first place, then again, that's ignoring the fact that at the time she didn't even want whatever they had hidden. But even if she did, that also would have taken more than a single day to get results, so what should she have done in the meantime? Sit around and wait? Isn't that exactly what you had a problem with? Again, if you don't like Lou as a character, that's fine. I literally don't care. That's on you my man. If you want to pay to read a story about a MC you don't like that's your prerogative. No, no one forgot about Fen and Junior. They just weren't relevant to the conversation at any point in time before this. Though I do have to say the fact that you think either of them actually grew as characters is a bit fascinating since I'd go as far as to say they two of the few characters that didn't grow at all. The only growth Junior had, if you can call it that, was learning how to be a pet. It's not like he stopped hating Lou nor what she did to his family. He just learned not to say anything or else he'd get punished. At no point do I recall him regretting his past actions or the actions of his family. I would genuinely like to know what growth you believe he an Fen had over the course of the story. Finally, negotiations. One person being willing to negotiate when the rest are unwilling doesn't mean the situation would have changed if she only met that one person. That isn't how the March worked. That's not how the guilds work. The reason for invading the party was to kill those that weren't willing to negotiate so she could actually meet with and discuss things with the more rational side. Was it the best decision? Probably not. But do keep in mind the alternative was do nothing and wait for them to attack her, because, again, they weren't going to negotiate from the start. I feel like you've just forgotten that the guilds are not a single entity and the actions of one do not necessarily coincide with the desires of another. Oh, and the Victory thing. You just kind of keep glossing over the fact that she wanted to prevent a full blown war and that the so called time limit wasn't something like a week or two. Comes back to what I said about the worst interpretation of events. Now, I gotta go but I might still be up to further reply later. Not sure since I've just seen that you've kind of been at this for a while on discord already so this might just be one of those situations where we all agree to disagree. I mean I don't mind continuing but from what I've seen, further discussion will probably not accomplish anything, especially if it's going over the course of days. I'll leave it up to you though.
UncrownedKing
2024-08-16 12:32:53 +0000 UTCMy interpretation is so far off the mark that I directly quote Lou. Who said that she will destroy all of them and take everything they have, down to the spoons. It's also the definition of the March to the Ancestors : Everything you are and Everything you have. But sure, "Interpretation". "She needed a break" Yeah, right. Priorities. You could try to solve an issue that pit you against all the organisations of a city OR take holidays? Choose wisely. Damn Lou. You are so wise. Oh, and, if you take your holidays, the glossy one forbids that you ever try to do something of value during that time. Or let anyone around you do something of value ? "You wanna talk about TOMORROW ? You fool ! Tonight we drink." "She sent out a letter to the Lord" -> No comment if you trully believe that was an action worth anything. The girl just wanted his house by pettyness and for her Party. You still find excuses for Lou cause she's the main character, but there is nothing to justify being that bad of a character. I legit can't think of anyone being as incompetent as Lou. To get the things worse : Y'all forgot about Fen and Junior, two super interesting (way more than Lou from a developpment Standpoint since BOTH progressed in all those arcs, which Lou can't do) characters with their own arc that was initiated or teased, lost both of them as a direct result of Lou's stupidity and incompetence. Now, reading that Lou haven't changed after all of that. That tells everything about the character and I truly hope that she'll get her long overdue spanking during those mini arc. " She handled some things poorly, yes very much so, but she was also up against people that had no intentions of negotiating from the very beginning." Wrong. The last chapters of the Arc showed it. The Hunters could have negociate with the right arguments if Lou had tried with the right persons. Or tried at all. And would have lost absolutely everything without PlotArmor "Oh, she lost but not really cause the 7 dragon balls can't move separately" Edit : All of your excuses for Lou makes her a selfish prick. She didn't had the time for holidayss when she engaged herself and Alana to Victory on doing the March with a damn timer (Victory Troops were supposedly coming) To truly drive the point : Bakarina Claes took more action during her brother's kidnapping that she falsely believe was a runout than Lou did for the whole March + Kidnapping story. I don't think you can recover from this.
TheOneAboveAll
2024-08-16 09:09:38 +0000 UTCI initially had quite a bit written to contradict a lot of your points but getting to those last two I've come to the understanding that you're just going for the worst interpretation of events possible regardless of context. I mean, that you said Lou's goal was to destroy the hunters and take their treasures is so far off the mark it might as well be a different story. I would never deny someone their opinion about something, which is why I don't really have much to say about how you think of Lou as a character. It's just a lot of the way you're interpreting some events and motivations is just objectively not true. Lou is far from perfect and she doesn't always make the best decisions, but they do typically make sense with what information she has at the moment. I really do believe you'd benefit from rereading the last one and a half arcs or so because, to me at least, it seems like you've simply forgotten some of what happened and why certain things happened the way they did. Like the party. I assume you're talking about the going away/ no worries for a day party she had and not this current dinner party. The reason she did that was because they all rightfully needed a break after everything that happened in the north. And even then it's not like she didn't have things going on in the background during that as well. She sent out the letter to the lord, giving him advance warning to clear out of his house before she showed up in two days to take it. It was naïve of Lou to believe he would just listen no questions asked, but it was also entirely on him for not doing his own research or at least taking the threat seriously enough to evacuate the rest of his family just in case. Everything that went wrong during the previous arc was not solely Lou's fault. She handled some things poorly, yes very much so, but she was also up against people that had no intentions of negotiating from the very beginning. Yes, Lou lost even in her victory, but I don't think it was ever intended for it to come off as anything but. I genuinely can't tell if you're upset she didn't get what she wanted or upset because it somehow wasn't even worse for her.
UncrownedKing
2024-08-16 06:35:54 +0000 UTCHostages : It's just a shitshow from start to finish. You put the emphasis again on the value of live hostages, but they were barely guarded by youngsters without much experience (second time that the hunters let the Lou Clan decide of their fate, and we've seen how it ended in Victory). Yulia manipulating people doesn't matter when the kid that was sent was barely capable of even looking at her after 3 days of DIET. "Make sure our most valuable assets are guarded by the most fragile of psyche and will" Yeah right. Either the hunters took the hostage value seriously and guarded them right and Yulia plan was a fail or they didn't and killing or maiming them would put a big pressure on Lou. But nevermind that : Lou didn't do shit from start to finish for the March and that's my point. First thing was received assassins yes, what did she do the next day or even the same night about it ? Oh right : Nothing. Search the leaders ? Nope. Their bases ? Haha. She invited a few hunters and talked to ONE, who said clearly "A lot are against us and I'm no leader" and told him "Deal with it now shut up". Then she acted : She got played like a damn fool, jumped right into a trap and got her familly kidnapped. All the while taking absolutely no action of value (I mean, investigating a party but not the guilds ? come on) She wasn't FORCED into the March : Victory proposed to accomplished it in her name. She didn't want them to do so cause it would hurt Alana's pride and be a bloodshed. So she got absolutely no moral high ground about the whole March story when she : -Never aided and even blocked Yulia from contacting the hunters and negociate with them. -Put the hunters under surveillance. -Try to find their assets to gain a common ground. And in the end, she shat on Alana's pride with a bloodshed (Destruction of a City + Plague + Countless of dead childs and innocents + Telling your sister "you matter less than this almost unknown to me") Lou never told the leaders of the hunters what she wanted cause she never tried to communicate with them so no matter her intentions, her actions told us everything we need to know about her. Regarding the allies, again, look at Victory, who is now forced to take arms against the Kingdom right after their Fort was attacked cause the one who did a temper tantrum to "avoid bloodsheds" literally razed half of Quest. Yulia insisted that the March COULD be done without making a War, hence why she came with her damn baby. It wasn't just for holidays as our damn glossy idiot thinks : She's a devoted mother that wouldn't bring her damn child if she was sure there was no hope. The Hall, who repetedly showed it's wishes to stay out of every damn conflict, got totally effed by the lack of information + ultimatum and we can be sure that any cooperation between Lou and the Hall going forward won't be coming from good will or respect. "Send rescue to the city refugees, I could warn you about the plague that I unleashed on them all so you could do that efficiently but eff it, send your youngsters to deal with it. Send and exhaust even more ressources cause I said so." Since her first alliance (with Guiness) which she admited wanting to rob since the begining, Lou didn't uphold ANY of her engagement toward ANYONE outside of her clan. So Lou going "oh trust blabla" is edgy teenager BS "nobody can get me" She had been doing nothing but reacting. And she's still only reacting. You claim that she's preparing for the futur but no. She thought about some possibilities, and yet nothing is done. Geneva isn't finished with her precedent missions for instance. You claim (and others did) that she didn't had the time to act, yet she had the time to organize a damn party and the hunters got the time to organize multiple attempts + a damn raid on her home. Lou is slow, incompetent and lazy and I wish there was an event that would make her DO something instead of waiting AGAIN that the story move. Edit : What she can do before the King arrive? I don't know, getting intels on the forces on the moves and the different nobles around and their forces, assets and others. She got plenty of possibilities now that she showed that she don't care about killing indescriminately absolutely anyone. But that would avoid the case of the king magic forces being a little bit competent and capable of killing a member of her household from a distance without her capable of reacting fast enough. (As the kidnapping should have teached her but she got out of it scot free). Spending a whole day to taunt one of her stepfather and prepare for dinner would not be my top priority at the moment. But Morgene is awesome so maybe I would make some time for the diner. Deus Ex Machina and MacGuffins are not the forte of this story. A overtly powerful human secret organization at this stage feel Deus Ex Machina (that closed the last arc - mysterious entity around which EVERYTHING revolved unbeknown to us, the damn readers) and the Authority is a MacGuffin that work less than the Dragon Balls (can't move them separatly but store them separately ? come on.) Lou LOST the last arc : Her goal was to destroy the hunters and take their treasures. All the leadership of the hunters (almost) is alive and without that plot element coming out of nowhere and breaking absolutely ALL rules of logic and preservation than any organisation,presumably one as old as the guild more importantly, should have. They lost their damn city to a unknown monster and yet DON'T move the treasure to not give Lou the L she deserves. So yeah, Lou is a brat, acting as a brat, and with none of the redeeming qualities of any kind of anti hero or interesting character. I don't think the author want us to feel sympathy or regard her as someone even a little bit capable when you take into account her breakdown at victory and compare it to how she reacted to a mother that was losing her child because she prefered to party instead of doing her damn job. And now it's time for her to take a damn L to correct her shitty attitude.
TheOneAboveAll
2024-08-15 21:55:35 +0000 UTCThere is so much to disagree with here that I genuinely don't know where to start. I almost wonder if we're even reading the same story at this point. I guess some of the ones that stuck out to me. The kidnapping. Just, no. There was no "good will" with the hunters in that situation at all. You do understand the value of a hostage is only when they are alive, right? You do remember all the other guards from victory were killed, right? If you're talking about how neither Talia nor Yulia died, then no that had nothing to do with the hunters supposed "good will". There was a very real possibility that one of them could have died in that situation. The reason no one died wasn't because of plot armor or "good will", it was because Yulia from her very first mention had an established skillset. She is great at manipulating people and getting them to sympathize with her. You can't just write off a character's established skill when it's convenient to the plot just so they can suffer. The clan chose to save Talia over Yulia. Talia survived because they attacked immediately when Lou went on her rampage. Geneva literally stopped someone from attacking her during the rescue operation. Had they chosen to go after Yulia, Talia most likely would have died. Yulia survived because she chose to take action to save herself rather than sit around for someone to do it for her, which makes sense given that at the end of the day, she's still from Victory. Now, about the March. This is the part I genuinely wonder if we've read the same story. Do you not remember one of the first things the hunters did was send assassins in the middle of the night to kill them all? Do you not remember the reason she went to the party in the first place was because the sword faction, the ones most opposed to ending things peacefully, were meeting there and she resolved to kill them to spare as many people as possible only to be outplayed as you said and have her family kidnapped? Do you not remember the reason she knew of the party in the first place was that the one and only hunter she finally met on peaceful terms was later murdered off screen? You say she had no moral high ground in this conflict, but do remember that she was the one forced into the March in the first place. She wasn't the one to kidnap a man because he told her no. She didn't chase the hunters all the way to victory and set up conditions using a tradition she knew nothing about and nearly caused a war because of hurt pride. The hunters weren't the ones that wanted to take only what was necessary to appease Victory and prevent a full blown war. Lou, if I'm remembering correctly, only wanted like a building or something and intended to leave everything else to the guilds. That is hardly unreasonable. Yes, Lou decided to do the March herself because it was the best way for her to avoid further bloodshed, and it would have worked if the people she were dealing with were even the slightest bit reasonable. Remember, she didn't have a choice in anything anymore after the fight had been accepted. The March gave her rights to literally everything the guilds owned, including their lives. Had Victory done the March, it would have been a war. Now some of the other things, like the allies comment. What exactly do you mean she didn't uphold her engagement to Victory? She doesn't owe them anything when it comes to the March. How she chose to handle it was entirely her decision to make since she and her clan were the ones to win the fight. If you're talking about Kahn, that's a work in progress. If you're talking about the March in general, again, was she decided to take was entirely up to her. Victory was only going to support her in claiming it should she request for it. As for the Hall, they aren't allies. They made that clear when they kicked her and her clan out. She has a few friends and acquaintances in the hall but that's it. Not even Cloud and her people are part of the Hall. She didn't owe them anything and yet she still gave them advance warning of her attack. The Hall isn't actually apart of quest nor does it have any ties to the guilds. As far as this conflict goes, they are a neutral third party. And again, "executing the March correctly" is the same thing as declaring war, which she was trying to prevent. Next, you say she's doing nothing but waiting and reacting, but that's kind of disingenuous. The previous arc probably took place over the course of a week or two at best. When she first got back she had her break party after being informed she was getting kicked out of the Hall. Then she was informed her father died. Then they get to the hotel where she believes she'll be meeting the hunters to talk through the March, only to have assassins try to kill her and her family. Then she kills them all. Then she decided to capture the Lord to force them to meet her. The estrazi show up somewhere along in there. She finally gets a meeting only to be informed that so long as the sword faction exists, the hunters will push for war. Then she resolves to kill them at the party to prevent further bloodshed only for her family to be kidnapped which led to the destruction of the city. To say she was only reacting and halfassing is ignoring large chunks of the story and placing the actions of other at her feet. In the aftermath, she's already trying to get ahead of a lot of things but a lot of those things take time. She sent out Geneva and the Lord and his wife to the other nobles to head that situation off. She sent out Bell to find the hunter's loot that's still left in the city. And while we're on that, why would she go out of her way to chase the fleeing hunters down when she didn't even want the loot in the first place? That and she's already got several pieces of it when, if I recall correctly, it was a set so they'll have to come back to get what she has from her eventually anyway. Again, the Khan situation is a work in progress. The estrazi situation will likely be handled soon. I'm not sure what you want her to do about the Royals in advance that wouldn't just make her even more of a brat but also a hypocrite as well since the whole reason the city is destroyed is that people weren't willing to sit down and talk. I mean, what do you want her to do aside from leave before they arrive? Meet them half way? Now, if you're dissatisfied with Lou as a character, that's a completely different story. I don't really have anything to say since that's opinion territory.
UncrownedKing
2024-08-15 20:56:26 +0000 UTC"she can't just threaten violence and expect people to respect that threat if she isn't willing to actually enact said violence when push comes to shove" -> She never threatened Quest, but the hunters. And let almost all the hunters escape with their loot so far. And didn't even bothered to inquire what was the Hunters possession to begin with. "She also learned that there can be very real consequences to trying to take the high ground, consequences to her family" -> The moral highground ? She never had it. She came in the city, demanded ridiculous things, didn't pressed on, didn't inquired, and stopped anyone from attempting any serious discussion on the subject. Famillies Rise and Fall together, she likes her cousins, so "lets no plan anything about it or them" "She learned was something about herself, what she is capable of and her own values: That she ultimately cares more about her clan than she cares about not committing atrocities." -> That's coming out of nowhere (since her Victory little crisis about not killing the unpowered and all of that) is poorly brought up (since it was only thanks tot he hunters good will that nothing bad happened to the hostages, and every damn actions afterward didn't affect the hunters that much) "The march pitted these two values against each other, and Lou decided that she was willing to commit atrocities for her clan, and has begun to accept and live with that fact about herself." She insisted that she would do the March to avoid bloodshed and slaughter. When she came back to the city, she never talked about it seriously once. Never set Geneva or Bell to assess the guilds leaders and possession, never tried to initiate dilomatic engagement or assist Yulia who was willing to do so, stopping her. Her only discussion with hunters were with non leaders during a party where she prohibited anyone of serious talk. See how you are defending someone who did nothing for 2 wholes arcs ? Same in the story with Alana going bonkers "Lou tried so hard and went so far". I liked Lou too, but come on.
TheOneAboveAll
2024-08-14 08:15:00 +0000 UTCThere is a difference between writing the story of a brat, a villain, a hero and antihero. All have marge for progression. Lou didn't evolve once except losing her fear of royals since Arc 1. There is still no planning behind any of her actions, no thoughts spent to any important subject. And still Lou and her most immediate surroundings believed that she's a saint that can do no wrong. Lou before Kidnapping and After is still the same half ass Lou that isn't capable of doing anything except reacting. "Lets wait the royal to come to Quest before thinking about it." "Lets wait this, lets wait that." She did the same with the March, tried to act a bit by crashing a party, got so badly outplayed that the only thing that stopped her from being a damn pawn was plot armor on the hostages cause hunters have a "good heart". We are long past the crisis so expecting change overnight is ruled out. But at least some change ? The only thought that strayed in her empty void space of a head so far was "Imma leave", and couldn't settle on the "where". I don't care a story of hero, antihero or villain, but I want to follow someone who can move her fingers outside of her arsehole after 9+ arcs.
TheOneAboveAll
2024-08-14 08:03:03 +0000 UTCI think there were a couple of pretty notable things Lou learned. She learned that she can't have it both ways: she can't just threaten violence and expect people to respect that threat if she isn't willing to actually enact said violence when push comes to shove. She also learned that there can be very real consequences to trying to take the high ground, consequences to her family. At least as I read it, the most major lesson she learned was something about herself, what she is capable of and her own values: That she ultimately cares more about her clan than she cares about not committing atrocities. The march pitted these two values against each other, and Lou decided that she was willing to commit atrocities for her clan, and has begun to accept and live with that fact about herself. Lou is definitely something of a brat who deep down doesn't really care for anyone outside her clan, and maybe she handled the march poorly, but why would we expect otherwise? Lou has never been good at diplomacy, much less diplomatically navigating a situation as complex as the march, and with much more experienced schemers on the other side. But as I read it, this arc was much more about Lou developing identity and resolve than competence. Resolve doesn't translate to competence overnight, and personally I really do hope to see Lou use that resolve start to become more competent in the coming arcs. What I do not want is for this to become a story about a hero who is willing to make significant personal sacrifice for the greater good (I think this is a very unlikely direction for the story to take), or even worse, a character who is so hyper-competent or with so much plot armor that they don't even need to make the hard decisions that give a character depth (maybe not as unlikely as the hero route, but I still trust Azazel not to fall into this given how the story has gone so far). All this to say, I don't think Lou being bratty before the march and being bratty after the march means no character development happened. Everyone reads stories for different reasons, but personally I don't want Lou to learn how to be more considerate of others, and am totally along for the ride as she instead learns how to more effectively be inconsiderate.
skab
2024-08-14 00:35:13 +0000 UTCI'm just insisting that once again, Lou's acting as a brat without any reasons. She's the one who never uphold any engagement or trust with her ally, close or not. She didn't warned the Hall properly. She didn't try to execute the March correctly. The Hall could have been a nightmare but chose not too, at their expenses, out of proportions. (Kierra, the second biggest deterent, showed during the March that she's far, far, far from invincible). She maintained her brat attitude with her "friend" too. That's edgyteenager level brain process from our Lou. And I'm still waiting for one lesson Lou learned. She was lazy and halfassed and got praised as if she solved world hunger, and is still doing absolutely nothing to even prepare for the event coming her way, again. A whole ass day to organize herself a diner in a city she destroyed, when royals are coming her way and most of the hunters are still running with their treasures. Edit : And a plague still running ?
TheOneAboveAll
2024-08-13 22:46:03 +0000 UTCI don't think Lou is talking about trusting her clan or allies, she still seems to trust them wholeheartedly, maybe even more than before. Rather she's talking about trusting external parties to leave her alone, even if it's in obviously in their own self-interest to do so (from Lou's perspective anyway). I don't think she ever felt her allies betrayed her, more that her expectations of the guilds were betrayed. She expected them to pragmatically analyze the situation and conclude that they should give Lou what she wants. (probably naively) More importantly in the scene, refusing the request to search her carriage is definitely not something I would expect old Lou to have done. After the march, she really seems to feel a lot less of an obligation to give courtesy to people like the acolytes (and the hunters, etc), since what she just experienced was that being polite and giving courtesy does not work in getting people to leave her alone. Whether or not we agree with the lessons Lou learned from the march, it's hard to deny that she _is_ learning lessons and changing. Character progression isn't only character progression when we like it.
skab
2024-08-13 21:09:15 +0000 UTC"My trust is worn thin" : - Didn't trusted anyone with anything so far outside of the Clan except for the most frivolous things possible (drink, parties) - Was not betrayed, but directly supported by her sole recognized ally (Victory) - Didn't uphold any of her engagement to said ally cause lazyhalfassed. - Separated from the most experienced and valuable party of her clan cause she wasn't told "you are amazing your decision making isn't shit at all" for her Father's death. Oh Lou. When will you offer up character progression, even just a little bit ?
TheOneAboveAll
2024-08-13 12:19:08 +0000 UTC
